Heaven and or Hell???????

what a subject!!

Just looking at different groups of churches/denominations, they have different takes on this so hmmmmmm i will be interested to see what people say on this.

You have your pretribulation rapture, your post tribulationists, you have your start of and middle of tribulation rapturists

you have those that say some scientists/researchers have discovered these tunnels/cascades/whatever they are called (i can’t remember right now) that apparently go deep into the center of the earth and they can hear screaming. Some christians have jumped on this and declare this to be hell.

I for one agree with you inertia that the church, certainly in the circles i was involved in, use/d hell as a scare tactic to ‘get people saved’. At the end of the day many were interested in the number who went up on the altar at the end of the night (statistics) for their competitiveness between each church. (You think i am just a bitter cynic – I tell you, some churches did that for real, i know, personally, I was in the offices for the staff meetings)

Then you had some who were legitimate and meant it, that they believe in heaven and hell, very seriously i might add. I know a wonderful dear old preacher who was saved that way in his youth, a delightful man, and loved people and never really overtly used that tactic on other people. But i do think, if you want to become a christian, love God, you should do it out of a love/positive experience, but i guess different courses for different horses.

Do I believe in heaven and hell. To be honest I am not sure, well perhaps i do, i certainly expect there to be something after this life that is for sure, but i wonder/question the validity of some teaching about the subject as i have a number of issues/questions and they go as far as saying, what was in the other post, about other world religions.

I wonder if christianity, like other religions have a bit of the elephant?? Not the whole thing.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carlton_Pearson

this entry about a well established pentecostal preacher in the US I guess is relevant to this thread.

Bishop Pearson attended Oral Roberts University, and was mentored by Oral Roberts. He was licensed and ordained in the Church of God in Christ. [2] Pearson formed his own church, Higher Dimensions, which became one of the largest in the city of Tulsa, Oklahoma. During the 1990s it grew to an attendance of over 5,000 and in 1997 Pearson was ordained a bishop. In 2000 he campaigned for George W. Bush and following the presidential inauguration was invited to the White House.

Controversy in ministry and resulting media coverage

“ A person who spends every day getting drunk, will ruin their health, marriage, family and career; they will make their lives a living Hell. But that still falls far short of the chronic alcoholic being condemned by a just God to literally burn in Hell forever and ever.

For others it may very well be that the punishment merited by their sins is greater than what they receive in this life. For those people perhaps there will be some kind of punishment after death, but we believe that it will be remedial and corrective rather than just punishment for punishment’s sake. Exactly what that will be and how long it will last we don’t know. Will Hell for some people last 10 minutes or 10 million years… we don’t know. But this we do know; Hell will not last for eternity; it will not be endless… Don’t sin. Be reunited with God now, rather than after you have put yourself (and those you love) through Hell.

”

—Bishop Pearson’s belief in hell as stated on his website [3]

Then after viewing a television program which depicted the wretched conditions of people dying in Rwanda, and considering the teaching of his church that non-Christians were destined for hell, Pearson felt he had received an epiphany from God, and stated that he doubted the concept of hell as it has been traditionally taught. In February 2002 he lost a primary bid for the mayorship of Tulsa.[4] By then Pearson had begun to call his doctrine—a variation on universal reconciliation—the Gospel of Inclusion, and many in his congregation began to leave.

In March 2004, after hearing Bishop Pearson’s argument for inclusion, the Joint College of African-American Pentecostal Bishops reached the conclusion that such teaching was heresy. [1] Officially recognised as a heretic, the once very popular Bishop Carlton Pearson rapidly began to lose his influence. [5]

Bishop Pearson’s story was the subject of an episode entitled “Heretics” on Chicago Public Radio’s This American Life, which aired on December 16, 2005. [6] This was followed by a profile on Dateline NBC on August 13, 2006.[7]

Pearson was the subject of a CNN story on June 24th, 2007 which covered his change to a more inclusive policy (including acceptance of LGBT people into his church) and the resulting negative backlash from the evangelical community. [8]



Current ministry

Bishop Pearson was accepted in the United Church of Christ and is now the founder and senior pastor of New Dimensions Church in Tulsa.

Just a disclaimer: I have only read the initial post and none of the responses, mostly because I’ve only had two hours sleep so my attention span is limited; forgive me if I repeat what has already been said.

Ok so here is my theory for which I have absolutely no evidence and is based only a vague assumption on the character of God. I have always thought that our intentions towards God and others, our motives behind the actions mean more to God than what it is we actually do. Let me explain.

I know people who do the “right thing” not because its right but because they know they will get credit for it, others will notice and tell them how wonderful they are. I also know people who have done the wrong thing but genuinely believed they were doing what was best, right and true. With the exception of the whole Christian/non-Christian debate and whether non-Christians will go to hell (since that involves totally different “god issues”) I think it can work logically within Christianity. Thus, there is a difference between willful sin and ignorance.

I’ve always said (ok well maybe not always but now I do) that homosexuality is not a heaven or hell issue because, at its root, its not about homosexuality at all. No one gets into heaven for being straight and no one goes to hell for being homosexual. It’s what we do with what we have, what God has given us to handle, that makes the difference. Let me explain.

Say person A is a gay Christian who believes gay theology and genuinely tries as best he can to live in accordance with God. Person B is gay and Christian but has chosen to dismiss Christianity altogether (at least for now, anyone up for a predestination debate?) in favor of expressing his sexuality as he sees fit. He is not convinced by pro-gay theology. I think these two people have vastly different standings with God not because of their actions which are the same (homosexual relationships etc) but because of the motives and intentions behind their actions. Thats not to say that pro-gay theology is not right or wrong in a black and white sense; it contradicts conservative theology so both cant be true but it means that our intentions towards God make the black and white pale in comparison… almost into insignificance.

It fits in with the whole Jesus is all we need, its not about what you do mindset too. If our intention is to glorify God, truly, honestly and with integrity then I need to believe God sees that, respects it and will eventually reward it. Lets face it, I’m going to get to heaven and God will say “Uh… what were you thinking?! Seriously child did you even pick up a Bible?! You’re theology is so badly off base its laughable”. We are trying to figure out God here! God! Chances are we are all going to make a heap of laughable mistakes along the way. I doubt its those mistakes that matter to God. He loves us, really I imagine, all He wants is for us to love Him back and part of that is doing what we believe He wants us too whether it turns out to be right or not in the end.

Say person A is a gay Christian who believes gay theology and genuinely tries as best he can to live in accordance with God. Person B is gay and Christian but has chosen to dismiss Christianity altogether (at least for now, anyone up for a predestination debate?) in favor of expressing his sexuality as he sees fit. He is not convinced by pro-gay theology. I think these two people have vastly different standings with God not because of their actions which are the same (homosexual relationships etc) but because of the motives and intentions behind their actions. Thats not to say that pro-gay theology is not right or wrong in a black and white sense; it contradicts conservative theology so both cant be true but it means that our intentions towards God make the black and white pale in comparison… almost into insignificance.

It fits in with the whole Jesus is all we need, its not about what you do mindset too. If our intention is to glorify God, truly, honestly and with integrity then I need to believe God sees that, respects it and will eventually reward it. Lets face it, I’m going to get to heaven and God will say “Uh… what were you thinking?! Seriously child did you even pick up a Bible?! You’re theology is so badly off base its laughable”. We are trying to figure out God here! God! Chances are we are all going to make a heap of laughable mistakes along the way. I doubt its those mistakes that matter to God. He loves us, really I imagine, all He wants is for us to love Him back and part of that is doing what we believe He wants us too whether it turns out to be right or not in the end.

I actually agree wholeheartedly with you Sandy on this. And in fact, I believe there is scripture to back this up. In 1 Corinthians, there is a thing about how if something goes against your conscience, then it would be a sin for you to do it. So I think that supports your idea. And as we always say, we don’t understand everything. But having a little picture is better than having no picture at all – we need to make the best with what we do know.

Ah good to know its actually biblical… that helps with the reliability doesn’t it? 😆