Hey all,

I just wrote a new blog post and thought that it would also make an interesting discussion.

You can find it at http://bennygresham.blogspot.com but I have also included it below.

Almost every day I talk to a gay person that just doesn’t understand why I would bother keeping my faith and why I would bother investing my time in building bridges between the church and the gay community. I think this comes down to a huge level of ignorance and the fact that the majority of LGBT people and the majority of Christians don’t really understand what’s really happening on the ‘other side’.

Whether you call Christianity a religion or a faith, you need to know that God doesn’t discriminate against the LGBT community – PEOPLE DO!!

Every individual has to make their own choices and people from religious backgrounds and non-religious backgrounds discriminate against LGBT people all the time. The Australian Prime Minister, Julia Gillard is a strong atheist and she has repeatedly stated that she does not support same-sex marriage from a personal and political perspective. She is one example of many!

Also most of the direct discrimination I have encountered has been from non-religious people. Churches aren’t anti-gay because they hate gay people and the LGBT community is not anti-religion because they hate God! Both sides are ignorant and IGNORANCE IS THE REAL PROBLEM! Both sides have never had dialogue and learnt from each other. It’s always been this mini war about one-side against another in which no-one wins but everyone loses.

My great friend and mentor Anthony Venn-Brown often says “the enemy we fight is not individuals, political parties or denominations – the enemy is ignorance”.

Whether you are a straight Christian woman or an gay male atheist, we need to encourage dialogue and build a bridge between the LGBT community and churches. We should not be militant, we should not be bitter! We must simply try to get people to talk…and that is the first step. We need to stand in the gap!

Conferences such as ‘A Different Conversation’, books such as Andrew Marin’s ‘Love is An Orientation’ and organisations such as freedom 2 b[e], Soulforce and 100 Revs are making a real effort in bridging this gap!

Churches and Religious organisations will never go away and neither will the LGBT community. So we either keep fighting or we start talking peacefully about things and work together to really help people? Think about it? One creates peace, another creates war!

What would Jesus do?

This reminds me a lot of Love is an Orientation, where it talks about how bridges get walked on by both sides.

I kind of agree, I kind of don’t. I agree that Ignorance is a huge problem but I don’t know if it is the “real problem”, it definitely contributes.

I spend a lot of time working on raising awareness about global poverty and Australia’s lackluster aid program. Whilst it is true that ignorance is a contributing factor to the challenges we face, another truth is that many people know that poverty is bad, but they just don’t really care.

I’m not sure if education alone can make someone compassionate. On the flip side I don’t think being ignorant makes you cruel either. I know very little about, say, serious addictions or ADHD or even transsexualism, but I would hope that when I meet people who are stigmatized by these things I would still be compassionate.

Similarly, a lot of the guys behind ex-gay programs definitely are not ignorant.

So yeah, I guess I would say ignorance is very significant, but I am not convinced that there is a one-to-one relationship between ignorance and the lack of compassion or respect that you describe. I would say that ignorance is one of a few things we can definitely do something about though.

I hope that all makes sense.

Querido Familia,

I believe that much of what you say is true. Ignorance is always part of the problem in any field. But I think the problem is much greater than that:

1. It is political/social opportunism: As history shows us, both non-religious and religious persons can be equally hostile to homosexuals. By the same token, both non-religious and religious persons can be equally dedicated to protecting, enriching and advocating for the rights and lives of LGBT persons. Why is this? Because in any given society, those in power will subjugate a minority and use their pain as a scapegoat for their own ambitions. The Australian Jellyfish (aka Ms. Gillard) did this. The American Democratic Party did this. The American Republican Party did this. This issue is not so much a religious one, but rather one that is very secular and very, very human: the desire for power.

2. Anger is the mind killer: As Che Guevara proved, once you have poisoned a mind with anger, the ability to reason, the ability to resist being dominated by the will of another weakens. By making their respective “sides” demonize and despise the other, both liberals and conservatives more easily exert control over the masses. Liberal demagogues feed their listeners stories of “EVIL XIANS” and “TYRANNICAL CONS” who, if allowed power will kill all homosexuals or put them in chains. Gay Christians? Gay Conservatives? Traitors who must be purged or “made to bleed” as Dan Savage would say. Conservative talking heads fill their audiences ears with stories of “RAPACIOUS, ELITIST QUEERS” and “LIBERAL COMMUNISTS” who, if given the opportunity will molest their children, burn down schools and churches and steal their money, Pro-Gay Heterosexuals? Pro-Gay Christians? Quisling servants of the Libs who must be purged or “made to bleed”. Eliminate the middle ground, and demonize your foe, and soon your word becomes law and people will do whatever you command. Why? Because if you don’t you are letting the “other side” win. You aren’t a traitor are you? Then do not question us! Do as you are ordered! The irony of course is that the taskmasters are doing exactly what they accuse the other side of.

A sad state of affairs. 🙁

Yours in Christ,

Raul

I think there are many contributors to the current state of affairs, all have made some valid points thus far.

At the end of the day, people need to make their own mind up.

I got together with a past friend (who had disowned me a while before) some time ago and we went over scriptures. We discussed them, consulted his bible, his concordance etc. Even though he admitted I made very good arguments regarding every one of those he brought up (very politely too), that he could not say I was wrong, he could not change his view that I was evil and going to hell.

I responded to him by comparing him to a cult, choosing fragments of scripture to suit his own bias. He was horrified but I challenged him to say he did not do it. He nodded and drove off.

Perhaps religious aspects/sections of the community may make a change of position on GLBTI issues a little more challenging.???????????????

I do think we all need to do our best to educate etc and hopefully see some great changes of attitude which will influence many aspects of our community and society

but let us be realistic too, some people will not change their views because they just don’t want to.

I think there are many contributors to the current state of affairs, all have made some valid points thus far.

At the end of the day, people need to make their own mind up.

I got together with a past friend (who had disowned me a while before) some time ago and we went over scriptures. We discussed them, consulted his bible, his concordance etc. Even though he admitted I made very good arguments regarding every one of those he brought up (very politely too), that he could not say I was wrong, he could not change his view that I was evil and going to hell.

I responded to him by comparing him to a cult, choosing fragments of scripture to suit his own bias. He was horrified but I challenged him to say he did not do it. He nodded and drove off.

Perhaps religious aspects/sections of the community may make a change of position on GLBTI issues a little more challenging.???????????????

I do think we all need to do our best to educate etc and hopefully see some great changes of attitude which will influence many aspects of our community and society

but let us be realistic too, some people will not change their views because they just don’t want to.

Querido OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! (See? I just upgraded your user name. Capitalization AND an Exclamation Mark. You’re Welcome! :bigsmile: ),

While I hear all that (and agree with much of it), might I make a suggestion?

I think what is affecting your friend is less a religious issue and more something much more earthly: pride. Pride is a powerful force for good. It reminds us that we have worth. It helps us face a dehumanizing society and not lose sight of our morals or values. But it can also be a stumbling block and for some a cage.

It seems to me that what holds your friend back is not his religious convictions as much as it is inability to admit that he was wrong, that he misread scripture, and that his own prejudices have been called out.

Yours in Christ,

Raul