I had a wonderful hour long talk with a lesbian client of mine recently…..boy did I learn a lot. And I thought I was fairly well educated in that area. A tolerant, open informed gay man.

the discusion came up because i was saying how disappointed i am at times to not have many ladies join us in our meetings. I’m so used to being in a church community with both genders equally represented in numbers if not in leadership. This is not a criticism that you are not therere ladies I was just asking the question as I thought i might find some answers…………..and boy did I.

I assumed too much. Especially that the needs, thinking, etc of lesbians was the same as me a gay man.

So tell us girls………how could we make all the spaces in freedom 2 b(e) more lesbian friendly and a safe space for all.

Educate me……i’m all ears

It’s interesting that this topic has come up, personally I hate ‘womens issues’ and ‘mens issues’ in the sense that they are totally different and that all men and all women prescribe to the same issues. Men and women are as diverse as can be, you have some lesbians who are masculine in trait and others who are feminine. Like anything involving people there is no one answer. Here are my thoughts, generalised as they may be.

Women tend to primarily identify themselves through their relationships, wheather that be mother, sister, lover whatever. These relationships have a very high emotional value for women and I think that women need constant affimation. This is so with straight women too but the dynamic is hightened in gay women because of society’s inability to accept lesbian relationships. It has been said (I think its a little dubious) that gay men commit suicide primarily because society rejects them, they have to live in secrecy etc… There are environmental factors if you will, lesbians on the other hand commit suicide because of relational factors, family being unable to accept, loneliness etc… Whether this is true or not I dont know… but its something to think about.

Women unfortunaty have the added pressure of surviving in a mans world. Now I know that technically its not suposed to be but let me tell you, it still is. Women’s wages are only 74% of mans, the amount of women in top-notch jobs is disgraceful. Women can acheive these things there is do doubt, but its so much easier if you are a man. Lesbians are not going to have a man to support them in any way and must survive disadvantaged, first as women which brings its own kind of discrimination, and then as lesbians, a doubble deal.

Unfortunaty, and disgustingly women also have to deal with the male sexual fantasy retoric. getting me started on this is like lighting a firecracker but basically girl-on-girl action is sexy for straight men. Studies have shown that the biggest male fantasy is a bi-sexual experience with two other women :roll:. Now normally when I talk about this people look blank and say “so? what do you are what men find attractive?” Trust me, walking down the street holding hands or kissing a woman is likely to encite whistles and comments, going to the beach is a nightmare, shopping for underware…forget it! I have been forced at times to stop holding hands with my girlfriend and treat her as a friend…its ridiclous. I cant count the number of times I have been ‘hit on’ by a male hoping to get lucky with my girlfriend and I. As far as I know men dont seem to have the same problem…

I may be generalising too much here but I think women tend to have different issues when it comes to things that are unhealthy for us. Men it seems have more of a problem with pornography and for women, overwealmingly its emotionally dependant relationships that are usually with a friend, non-sexual and during a time she is single. Basically this other person can do no wrong and your life begins to revolve around her…its a big trap and stems from that same realtional need.

Thats it for now… I will wait and see what others say.

I think the follow up you mentioned mags depends on what anthony wants the site to become. I get the impression he doesnt want to spend his days personally couseling people on homosexuality, which is why this site is so beautiful, we counsel each other! But i agree that women try to personalise it more, quality as oposed to quantity. Maybe follow up is good but as ‘they’ always tell us, if the problem persists, see a doctor. Or at least someone in a better position to help.

yep we are not qualified to do counselling. there is benefit in peer support and commununication. I think thats what makes our forum successful….we jsut have to transfer that over to the meeting thing for the women.

so I guess i’m asking……is there something we are doing that is not lesbian friendly. Maybe they might want to have a seperate meeting anyway.

if you were going to organise a get together for same sex attracted girls from pente and charo backgrounds ….how would do it…..what things would be essential to take into consideration……….or am I flocking a dead horse and trying to create something that won’t happen

Hello lovelies

You’ve all written some really interesting things here, and I hope you don’t mind if I add my two cents worth!

In terms of GLBTTIQ communities, there are a lot more gay men than lesbians – I think the ratio is something like 3 to 1. This makes lesbians a minority within a minority. I don’t know what it’s like in Sydney or Melbourne, but if you look at the gay press in Brisbane, it’s almost completely designed for a gay male audience. I’ve talked to the editors of these papers, and they keep telling me they’re desperate for lesbian content, but find it very difficult to get lesbian input. At the same time, the couple of lesbian publications that we had in Brisbane died due to lack of support. Perhaps lesbian communities are more decentralised – lesbian couples are more likely to be living out in the ‘burbs, and I get the impression most of their social networking happens online, on sites like the pink sofa. And geographical distance can make a big difference in terms of getting together – if you have to drive for an hour to get to a meeting, it can be a huge disincentive. Lesbians in general have less disposable income than gay men, so there might be problems arising out of that too.

As Anthony has said, I think we can all make the mistake of thinking we’re in the same boat, whereas our experiences of prejudice and discrimination, and our aspirations and goals, can be very different – and this applies within groups of lesbians and gay men, as well as between the two genders. In the ’80s, the AIDS epidemic brought everyone together, but since that time there hasn’t been a single issue for our communities to coalesce around – even relationship recognition isn’t relevant to or popular with everyone.

Another thing to keep in mind is the extraordinarily large number of women who have experienced physical and/or sexual abuse at the hands of men. This can make interacting with men in general very uncomfortable for some.

As I’ve tried to engage with various GLBTTIQ groups, I guess the major difficulty I’ve encountered has been the hostility I feel from some gay men about feminism that seems to arise from the assumption that all feminists hate men. Often when I’ve tried to raise my concerns, in online forums and in other groups, I’ve been aggressively shot down in flames, or else criticised and ridiculed for taking things too ‘seriously’, rather than having my concerns listened to and respected.

That’s all I can think of for now.

Cheers!

Sue Kentlyn