In regards to hearing stuff we don't like in church and if we are offended maybe God is telling us something. Maybe in some cases that is true, but we should not sit there and blindly agree or follow any pastor, church etc. God gave us the Holy Spirit to help/guide us. Jesus said when he left his disciples he will send another, the other was the Holy Spirit. Have you thought, Truth V Lies, that it is the Holy Spirit that kicks in and makes us feel uncomfortable, enraged, offended? Letting us know that what is happening is not right.

As you mentioned the Pastor was using an example to make "HIS" point. I have sat and listened so many times when pastors have taken a scripture on it's own out of context, out of the time and place, culture etc and then used it to make "HIS"point. Who says his point is what that scripture is actually saying.

God gave us feelings, he gave us the Holy Spirit, he gave us righteous anger. I think Bernie showed incredible self control to walk out and not say something and maybe that was the Holy Spirit guiding him to do that. In his place I don't think I would have been able to do the same. What would have risen up in me would have been a different manifestation of the Holy Spirit speaking out that what the Pastor was saying was wrong. Either way, we should not sit their and blindly follow a Pastor up the front because we think he is the man of God, he knows more than all of us. There has been many examples of Pastors who have fallen. If all we had to do was sit there and do what some Pastor up the front said was right then Jesus would have said he will send some men to replace him. But he didn't he sent us the Holy Spirit to be our witness, our conscious, our guide, our teacher. The law is now written in our hearts. Thank God he did sent the Holy Spirit and we don't have to rely on the interpretations or misinterpretations of man.

God Bless

I was offended because he was saying that GLBTI people, of which I am one, are not safe to be entrusted with children. He was effectively calling me a child abuser. Frankly, I'd be concerned by anyone who was not offended by that.

I walked out because what he said was factually wrong and unjust. God is neither of those things and I needed to 'voice' my opposition to his message, in some way. Perhaps if I'd been more confident, I'd have stayed and then spoken to him afterwards, but I didn't analyse and plan it, I just reacted and it still feels like I did the right thing.

Incidentally, I haven't been back there or made contact with him yet. I'm working up to it for this weekend. I don't want to write him off prematurely because this is a small town and who knows how long it will be before he meets another person who's in a position to talk to him about this. If he doesn't listen, then I'll move on but I think I need to try, if not for my sake then for all the other GLBTI people he comes across in the future.

Bernie (who's a 'she' *grin*)

Bernie – G'day! I feel your pain, and the challenge re what to do.

Generally, when I hear a preacher say something negative like that, my immediate and deliberate action is to:

(1) remind myself that s/he is most likely speaking from ignorance – i.e., is just repeating what s/he was originally taught and that s/he has never made the effort, or had the time, to study the issue objectively. (Most pastors are fairly busy people and a 'gay' issue is a very small one in all they handle.)

(2) silently pray that prayer of Jesus on the Cross: "Father forgive them (him/her) for they know not what they do".

Doing those two things immediately diffuses any anger I may feel and enables me to react objectively.

For me, a gentle bit-by-bit challenge of entrenched views works better than a full-on assault/argument. I'd be emailing my pastor and saying something like: "I appreciate the huge challenge you have in presenting your interpretation of God's word to us. But, I am concerned that (perhaps in the emotion of the moment) you have taken one objectionable action by a gay parent and extrapolated that to apply to all same-sex parents and their relationships – without any supporting data. Surely, such logic would suggest that a report of an abusive heterosexual parent should be extrapolated as judgement against all heterosexual parents; or one example of a husband responsible for domestic violence be extrapolated as condemnation of all husbands in marriages. To use unsubstantiated and emotional statements such as that does yourself a discredit and could well be harmful to individuals in the congregation."

Trust you find the wisdom and courage to respond appropriately. God bless ~ david

Bernie

Something similar happened at my father's church.

My father – who was in his 90's at the time – was deeply offended by the ministers attack on LGBTI people

To be honest – it was a few years back and I forget precisely what the minister actually said

However – my father wrote letters to the local newspapser and the minister directly denouncing the attacks.

After a while however – when it became clear the attitude was not going to change – he moved churches.

He also lives in the country – and so there are a limited number of choices – and he ended up finding a small group – that meet in the CWA hall and went there.

He would not join that church – because he didnt believe all their doctrine – and joining entailed making commitments he wasnt willing to make – but he was welcome (and In fact – I have gone there with him) and whilst there are some there that are not a fan of lgbti people (or their rights) – they were still friendly and welcoming and most in the church were supportive in their views.

the point is that maybe there isnt such a group there where you live – country towns really vary in size and culture – but my dad had to look a little deeper to find a church he was comfotable with – and it wasnt one he expected to attend.

Oh and he had to go to the bigger town – that was a little bit further away (there are actually no churches in the town he lives) – but the problem was with the church in the closest town (with churches) and he ended up going to one – a little bigger and a further drive.

at any rate – whilst you need to to follow your heart in this matter – that I personally wouldnt stay in such a church.[In my opinion] Churches should be supportive communities and more than somewhere you go on a sunday and with a minister preaching such messages I think that will show in the nature of their "community".

Good luck Bernie, will be thinking of you, will say a few prayers that things go well.

Keep us informed on how it goes.